Building Real Career Paths In Multifamily

Promotions should create momentum, not anxiety.

In this episode of the Multifamily Women Podcast, Carrie Antrim sits down with Jackie Musto, Associate Director of Brand and People Excellence at Mark-Taylor, to explore how skills-based development, neuroscience-informed leadership, and intentional career pathways are transforming retention and team performance in multifamily.

Jackie’s career journey from leasing consultant to leadership development strategist offers a powerful perspective on what actually motivates people to grow inside an organization and why many promotions fail.

The conversation reveals a critical insight for leaders.

Many organizations promote based on tasks, when they should be developing people based on skills.

By mapping job responsibilities to the underlying human skills required for success, leaders can create clearer development paths, reduce imposter syndrome after promotions, and give team members the confidence to grow into new roles. 

What You’ll Learn in This Episode

Why promotions often fail in the first 90 days
Jackie explains how new roles require completely different skill sets and why preparing people for those skills dramatically improves retention.

How skills pathways create real career clarity
Instead of vague feedback or task-based training, team members evaluate themselves on specific skills and receive targeted learning to close the gap.

How neuroscience impacts leadership and motivation
Understanding survival, emotional, and executive brain states helps leaders approach conflict, feedback, and performance conversations with more empathy and better outcomes.

How Mark-Taylor is building technical and service career ladders
Proprietary certification programs allow service team members to earn recognized credentials and additional pay for skills in HVAC, electrical, plumbing, OSHA, and EPA.

Why clarity is the real driver of retention
Many employees leave not because of compensation, but because they cannot see their future inside the company.

The skills every future leader needs to develop
Persuasive communication, emotional intelligence, and the ability to navigate difficult conversations.

Key Leadership Insight

According to Jackie, one of the most important mindset shifts leaders can make is recognizing that:

A promotion is not just advancement. It is a completely different job.

When organizations prepare people for the skills behind the role, instead of just the tasks inside it, they dramatically increase confidence, engagement, and long-term success.

Advice for Women Building Leadership Careers

Jackie also shares guidance for women in multifamily who want to grow into leadership.

Instead of simply working harder, focus on identifying your strongest skills and intentionally applying them to new challenges.

Growth comes from leveraging strengths and learning new capabilities, not from trying to be perfect in every task.

Connect with Jackie Musto

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-musto-msml-490402130/

Connect with Multifamily Women®:

Multifamily Women® Summit: https://multifamilywomen.com/
Carrie Antrim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carrieantrim/
Be a Guest on the Podcast or at the Summit: https://apps.multifamilywomen.com/speakingrequest
Multifamily Women® Leadership Series: https://apps.multifamilywomen.com/join

Transcript

Welcome And Episode Focus

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Hi, welcome back to another episode of the Multifamily Women Podcast. I'm your host, Carrie Antrim, and today we're talking about motivation, growth, retention, and how leaders are building real career pathways inside multifamily organizations. I've got Jackie Musto, Associate Director of Brand and Pupil Excellence at Mark Taylor here with me today, where she is focusing not just on training programs, but how organizations intentionally design the team member lifecycle to support engagement, performance, and long-term growth. Many of you also saw Jackie on stage at the 2025 Multifamily Women's Summit, where she delivered a keynote on neuroscience-powered leadership for resilient, productive teams. In that session, she explored how the brain's survival, emotional, and executive states influence how people perform at work and how leaders can create environments that keep teams focused, motivated, and in problem-solving mode. Jackie, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:21

Every time I come in this studio, I'm in awe. It's so beautiful. I love it so much. You guys have done a great job.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Oh, thanks. Well, I love having you here. I love how you matched the theme. You did a better job than I did when I'm here every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

The five things that I have are pinker for you guys only.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I love that. Yeah. All my sequins, anything sequin I have, it's like for the women's summit. I have all my sequins lined up. Um, so listen, I want to talk to you a little bit about what inspired you to do this type of work. Like how did you begin in multifamily and where has this led you to be doing this? Like you're doing brain research. You were on the keynote you delivered at the summit was incredible. You had um uh slides to show us or posters, you know, of the brain. It was amazing.

Multifamily Origin And Love Of Training

SPEAKER_01 2:02

Yeah. Um, so I started in multifamily um on my 20th birthday, 19 years ago. I know it's always easy to do the math there. Um, but on my 20th birthday and fell absolutely in love with it. Um I started as a leasing consultant and went over to Mark Taylor when I was there, when I right before I left Mark Taylor, I was a dual site manager of community operations. Um, but at that time, the really cool thing about Mark Taylor is they have so many people there with a ton of tenure. And people have been there for a really long time, and that included me. Um, but with that, we are a little family, and so we call each other when we needed help. And I did actually a lot of the training and mentorship. I was teaching a couple classes a week, and I realized that that's what I wanted to do exclusively. I wanted to train, um, I wanted to create content. And at the time that position wasn't available, and I also really wanted to go back to school. So I uh enrolled back in school to get my degree in human resources, and I also left to work for Avenue 5. They hired me on as a career development manager, and I loved it. I had a really great leader there who allowed me to just use all my creativity to create content and micro videos and all sorts of things. Um but then Mark Taylor uh gave me a call and had this position open in Brandon People Excellence, and it felt like going back home to me. I was really excited about that. Um, and at the time I was finishing up my degree and said, you know what, I'm gonna get my master's now. So I got my master's. I was, I guess I wanted to be a forever student. Yeah. Um, got my master's, and as you know, I also had a son who is neurodivergent. And I've always been so interested. Uh nothing to me is almost ever surface level. When we're talking about conflict management, I can't ever just think of the steps it takes to resolve conflict. I have to know what's going on in the brain. And so when my son was born, he inspired me even more to do that. And that's why everything I research when it comes to leadership training, conflict management, even sales training, it's always somewhere around the brain. And finding out the why is just important to me. So I dove into that much more.

Conflict, Amygdala Hijack, And Empathy

SPEAKER_00 4:17

I love that. And I think that that makes a huge difference when you're having a conversation that might be a little more difficult, right? You're some sort of conflict resolution or, you know, just one of these crucial conversations. I think what I learned from your keynote, just knowing what's happening in the brain makes it a lot easier to understand how to have that conversation, how to approach someone and why they might be doing what they're doing, thinking what they're thinking. You're like, oh, okay, it's because of this, right? And then you know how to approach it better.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Yeah, conflict management is by far my favorite class. I think at this point that class has touched thousands of people because I've taught it for 10 years now and actually across the United States. Um, but what it opens with is emotional intelligence, and we talk about your amygdala and having an amygdala hijack. Yeah. Um, but I so I have them write down the last time they had an amygdala hijack, and we talk about it, and I say, Do you feel like you have these more in your personal or professional life? And then we stop for a second and I say, Okay, what about residents? They're humans too. Right. They have these too, and everybody's like, dang it, you're right. Right. Like they're expecting me with, you know, I have 14 years of being yelled at by residents, they're expecting me to just be on their team, and I am. But part of being on someone's team is making sure they understand where someone else is coming from and having them see it a little bit different. Um, and I always teach people having empathy actually causes or alleviates stress in your body. When you're in conflict with someone, if you can find empathy there, you have less stress. You're not trying to win. That's so stressful. And so that's my goal of that class in particular, is people to leave and have less stress from conflict.

Inside Onboarding And Service Certifications

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah, that's amazing. That's that is something that everybody deals with, and I think is very difficult. You know, it's it's hard to have those conversations. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. So then what does a typical day look like for you? Oh my god, is there a typical day or is every day different?

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Um, every day is definitely a little different. I love that about Brandon People Excellence, is we cover so many things, but my um part of the department is mostly the training and development piece. So we have a very robust onboarding program that I'm very proud of. Um I think when it comes to servant service team members, I personally think there's nothing else like it. They don't even go on site until their fifth day because we do so much before. Um, so I a lot of the onboarding piece, we do that every other week. So that's a lot. Um, and then creating content, helping leaders, seeing what the uh skill improvement opportunities are across the company, um, creating skills pathways, creating new initiatives. We just create uh rolled out last year something called PATSAPro, and it's a certification program for our service team members. Uh, they were kind of the star of the show last year. We put a lot of care into their development, but it's nine certifications that they can earn within Mark Taylor: plumbing, electrical, general maintenance, HVAC, uh, OSHA, EPA, and they get paid monthly if they obtain those. So that was a huge initiative last year that I we helped launch. So making sure people are taking advantage of everything we have to offer is a big part of my job.

SPEAKER_00 7:17

Yeah, absolutely. And so, as associate director of Brandon Pupil Excellence, how is this different than just your your traditional HR training? It sounds like you're going above and beyond, maybe.

Beyond HR: Brand Integrity And Audits

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Yeah. So the way I like to view it, so not only are we the training and development piece, we're also um we're corporate social responsibility as well. We do all of our what we call VTO volunteer time off events. Um, we handle all of the regular team member events, so leadership summit, uh, we have team appreciation week coming up, picnic, all of that. Um, but we're also brand integrity. Uh that's this department actually was brand integrity and brand integrity on its own and training and development on one. And then we merged because we found that, you know, as we were creating SOPs and we actually have a community certification program where we go out and we audit all of our properties twice a year. Um it covers how files are being run, the property aesthetic, all of it. Um, they would find items and then we'd almost have to transfer it to the new department. So we merged so that I can say, oh, what are the top 10 things we're seeing during these audits? Let me create training or SOPs or whatever it is for it. So um that brand integrity piece is big for us, Mark Taylor. Our goal is, you know, to be the most admired brand and never compromising on our principles. And that is brand and people excellence for sure. We're making sure that that vision is always showing through on our properties.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

That's incredible. That's a great vision. Um, and you mentioned the skills pathways. Can you tell me more? What is that? How does that work?

Skills Pathways: From Tasks To Skills

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Tell us more about that. Yes, it's one, it's absolutely this year, 2026, something I'm uh have at the forefront because it's all about growth for everybody. Okay. And it's it really helps us dive into getting out of that like linear growth that's so common in property management, right? If you're a leasing consultant, you gotta become an assistant manager, which is a totally different brain. Right. It was very tough for me. I'm a people person, I'm creative, and then all of a sudden you're giving me delinquency. I'm like, no, I love relationships with people. Right. Or, you know, more files. And that was really that was tough for me. So, um, and I know it's tough for a lot of people, you kind of jump around. Uh, so what Skills Pathways is, I'll give you like the tactical point of view of it, is we take a job description and we list everything out, and then we talk about what are those tasks that belong to each part of that job description. And then you take the task and you say, what's the actual skill that you need for that task? Because when you think about people moving up and you're maybe doing a review with them or you're talking about what they're what's going right and what's going wrong, if you just say, you know, delinquency is not your strong suit, what is it? What skill are they missing for that? So I go through and if somebody tells me delinquency is a task or managing delinquency, I say, okay, that requires communication, that requires um accountability, that requires um organization, and I list those skills. So each pathway to a new position probably has 25 to 30 skills somebody needs. And what they can do now is rate where they're at, which you which you with within each of those skills. Okay. So um within our learning management system, an employee can go in and say, okay, for uh organization, I'm a three out of five. For um empathy, I'm a five out of five. And then the leader of that team member can go through and say, I agree with you, you know, or maybe this is actually something a little lower. And then from there, classes are assigned based on how they rate themselves. So if they rate themselves for organization a three, they're gonna get three classes to help with that. And some of them are in person, some of them are online, and then they can go back after 90 days of taking classes and see where maybe they need more classes within that one specific skill. But they can continue to work on the actual skills for that.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

Is this happening during onboarding or is this after they've been with Mark Taylor for a while?

Self-Ratings, LMS, And Targeted Learning

SPEAKER_01 11:23

There's two ways that it can happen. It can happen uh when they're looking, they're ready for the next step. So within our LMS, they can say, I am a leasing consultant, I'm looking to become an assistant manager, and that's where all of the skills for them to rank themselves pop up. That's brilliant. I love that. Great. We actually right now have 400 people in a skill pathway. Wow. At Mark Taylor. They can use it. So if they are saying, hey, you know, I'm feeling like I'm struggling in my role, they could absolutely go in there and say, What's my current role and rank themselves that way? And I do encourage that during review time to kind of do that with them because it is, and uh it's kind of what uh the reason for skills for me is it is really tough to just say, okay, why am I not good at that task? And so that's why I really want leaders to use it as part of the review process too, to talk about skills instead. Right. Um, but yes, it's it's been really great. And so we've developed all of our on-site roles, and now we're actually working on all of our corporate roles right as well. So today I'm working on the business development teams. Right. So if somebody on site or somebody in marketing wants to go into business development, they can also look to see what it would take to become a part of that team.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

That's great. So they they can see where their strengths and weaknesses are, and they might even rank themselves, you know, differently than their team leader would. Like you gave yourself a two here, but I don't think you're giving yourself enough credit. You know, they might not even see it in themselves, like you said. And so then that determines kind of what path they want to take, might help them understand, yes. They might not even not even know, you know, like you said you list out all the tasks for a certain, you know, job. Yeah. And all the skills. They might not even know. They could look at that and say, Oh, look at that. I might be good at that. Yeah. I never thought about it.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Right. And I think that's important too, because some people don't realize the next step is sometimes very different. Yeah. I heard someone say one time that becoming a leader is not a promotion, it's a job change. Yeah. You know, and I I thought that's wrong, it's been so perfect. That's like the perfect phrase for me. And people don't realize how many different skills that takes. Right. I think if somebody would have sat down and showed me all of the skills for an assistant manager, I would just say, like, okay, well, can I opt out of this particular position? Or at least I would know, like, okay, this is possibly temporary for me because I actually would make a really good manager of community operations. I have those skills. So it would be motivation for me instead of getting there and being like, oh, now can I not even go to the next step?

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Because I don't have this.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

But even not realizing it requires totally different skills that I actually did have as a leasing person.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

Right, right. Wow, that's that's really interesting. Um, and how is this different than you know, leaders identifying these skills? How is this different than it was in the past?

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Um, I think, you know, with I think you we focused so much on the tasks. It was cross-training how to do our weekly report, cross-training how to interchecks, or you know, for a service team member, cross-training how to order parts, right? It was, and again, you'd get to that, and you that's what happens with promotions, right? You get there. Um, I just read that uh promotions actually have a 25% turnover rate in the United States. You'd think you get there, you're so excited to be promoted, and within 90 days, people are like, this isn't for me. And you the imposter syndrome is at 70% when people are promoted. And it is because you get there and you you think I can't do this task. I can't do this task. But if someone said you can do this task because you had this skill before, it's just you apply the skill differently, right? Then yes, you then you you have less imposter syndrome for it.

Nine Box And Promotion Readiness

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Wow, that's interesting. Now, you and I had talked a little bit about um nine using nine box thinking. Yeah. Can you tell us more, like tell our listeners what that is and how that works?

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Yeah. So our uh Mark Taylor uses nine box to help us with uh promotions, right? To see who's ready, to get the next person on deck. Um if you've heard of it before, it's a scale. Um and you kind of you look at where each team member is and say, okay, here's who's ready for promotion, here's who needs more assistance. Um and it kind of rates it on where they're at with the skill of the job and even the motivation of the job. So maybe someone is really bought into your company. They are just a cheerleader for your mission and your vision and your principles, but it's taking them a little more time to pick up the skills needed for that actual role. That's someone you want around, right? That's someone you want to put some time and effort to. So you put them on a place on the box where you, that's where you know what you need to do to lean in. Okay. And if it's the opposite, if it's someone who is crushing the job, but you just don't you don't see long term with them because maybe they have they don't have the buy-in, um, you can decide how you're gonna lean in there. Like, do you help that help create that buy-in, or is it someone who maybe this isn't the role for them? So they go along the grid. Um, and that's where me and uh our talent team is kind of talking like where do these skill pathways come with that? If somebody's in a box um that is somewhere near promotion time, they should be doing these skill pathways to get them there right away. And if somebody isn't, if it's skills that are needed, um, then they should kind of be taking a look and and again diving into what exactly they need to do other than the tasks.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah. Out of curiosity, with everything we've talked about so far, do all of these things change how you're writing the actual job descriptions?

Motivation, Maslow, And Useful Feedback

SPEAKER_01 16:34

No, I wouldn't say that. I think just maybe even maybe viewing the job descriptions. Absolutely. Viewing the tasks for sure. Um, especially when it goes comes from like role to roll.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Yeah, but that is a great question.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yeah. And then how are you making sure that all of these things are are motivating your team members and not like, oh gosh, you know, they said I'm not good at this thing, you know, now I have to take a class. Like, how do you make sure it's the opposite? Like, this is an opportunity for you to advance and get better.

Turnover, Clarity, And Big Think Content

SPEAKER_01 17:04

So here is where the brain comes in. And you know, you know, uh, and I had actually talked about uh Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you remember, um and self-actualization being at the top of that pyramid. So almost everything I do now focuses on like how people see their self-actualization, and that's where skills come in. Okay. Because again, if if someone tells you you're not doing this task right, that means nothing to you. Um, but if someone can take your skill and actually say that, that's where you see yourself in that role. Yeah. Um, so that's you know where this plays in, where people actually you're telling them, like, hey, you okay, so let me take a step back. There's a something that people do all the time. They talk about the feedback sandwich. Okay. Um, and I am not a proponent of the feedback sandwich. I love regular sandwiches, uh, Jersey mics to be in particular. You do so. The number seven. Uh, but uh feedback sandwiches are not my thing, and here's why because we do this thing where it's like, I'm gonna give you really great feedback about something you're doing. I always say, like, uh you say, you are so great at closing the sale, your files are not great, but you again, you're really great at closing the sale, right? And people are like, wait, am I is this bad news or not? I have no idea. They they're not interpreting it, right? Or they are just still focusing on that. So, what I uh actually a class when I was teaching this a couple of months ago was like, it you are like a hot dog. They decided to name it a hot dog because I like the idea of okay, the the bread, it the bun is what they do really well. Uh-huh. And you're cradling the hot dog, which is maybe an improvement opportunity, and you're actually using that skill to make this one better. So let's take delinquency again. Okay. Um you are, you're such an empathetic person. Like, no, don't change that. That is such a great skill to have. It works so well when you're talking to residents. I know that this picking up delinquency part, right? This hot dog part is really tough for you because you're afraid you're gonna break some hearts, right? But you need to take that empathy and remember that people have to know what's going on. You have to communicate with them, and that's how you use that skill to make this better. Wow. And that's how they see themselves getting better at these things that maybe they are they think are big improvement opportunities.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Yeah, absolutely. It makes it less scary, it's less like, oh, I'm in trouble.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

No, it's just but it's also not completely deterring from what they they have to get better at that, right? Like it's really important. Um and it's not taking away from that, but it's showing them that they actually do have the skill. Right. They're just not looking at it the right way.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Yeah, yeah, it's there. It just needs to be cultivated the right way. Yeah. Oh, that's great. So you had mentioned turnover and and promotions and all of that. Do you think that turnover is more about, you know, compensation, or is it a is it a lack of clarity maybe around growth or that's the lack of clarity around growth is the number one reason why people leave their company.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

I think it's very easy to say it is um promotions. Uh, we a lot see a lot of people do the love languages for and uh they always think, oh, someone who likes gift giving is somebody who wants more compensation. But I think people even forget that compensation is sometimes a way to feel valued. You know, I got this compensation, and so it means you value me more. So really it's that growth and value that people are looking for the most. So yeah, I think even if someone isn't someone who is ready for a promotion, it's growing any skill that you think makes them feel like they're in the right place at the right time. Right. Right. I have absolutely will always have team members who are not ready, even in the next two years, to grow, but I still want to say, hey, I'm gonna grow this particular skill, whether it's signing you up for a class or um sitting with you one-on-one, because then they they see themselves in that job. And that's the most important thing. Getting to say, this is even if this isn't my dream job, right? My dream job is a radio host. And I'm not doing that right now, but I am exactly where I should be. And I'm I hope that even if they feel like they have improvement opportunities, people feel like they're exactly where they should be right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:00

Yeah, and how does that it's like you're reading the questions on my card here because I was just gonna ask you, how does visibility into these career pathways change engagement for team members, which I think you just kind of talked about? Because if you're giving them the clarity, hey, you might not be here right now, but we're leading you. Do you see them? Do they stay longer? Are they more engaged? Are they more hype about the whole thing? Absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

And they're even reaching out to me and saying, hey, this is the second time I've rated myself. I've taken some classes, what else can I do? And then we've got a few resources. We just partnered with a company called Big Think. I don't know if you've heard it before. It's a huge, a very large database of leadership classes, and it's actually a ton of speakers. It's Simon Sinek and all these amazing people. Uh and we can take the video, the SCORM file, and upload it into our LMS. Oh, cool. Um, and so they'll reach out to me and I'll I'll go in there, I'll research for them and I'll say, okay, actually, this one would be great for you. Um, and so they're they're excited about understanding exactly what they need, I think. And that's really important.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

Yeah.

Signals For Promotion And First 90 Days

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Uh there's so much confusion when there's not clarity. And confusion is worse than being let down by tough feedback. There's nothing worse than not knowing what you need to improve. I've been there before. Um, I've had leaders who have just been like, You're doing great. You know, you're my non squeaky wheel, I don't want you to worry about you. And that's The worst place to be because it's like, no, I actually want the feedback and I actually want to know what I could do be doing better or what you've more you view me. Right. Um, and so that's where these skills pathways really, really help.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Yeah, yeah. It's like, am I even doing it right? Like with no feedback is yeah, is definitely scary as well because you don't even know if you're on the right track. Yes. I mean, you're just like, I think I am because I'm still getting a paycheck, but yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Exactly. Yeah, you haven't written me up or anything. So I'll be good.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Exactly. Yeah. Um, it sounds to me like you kind of have an open door and you're you are clearly very empathetic to your team members too, where they can come in and say, This is where I'm struggling or this is where I want to go. Help me, please. Um, how does that feel and how have you developed that that leadership skill personally to be such a motivational force within Mark Taylor?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Mm-hmm. Um, very similar to the exact reason why my son has helped me understand the brain. Um, I actually wasn't a great employee at first. I was an awesome leasing consultant, really great. I had an amazing closing ratio. My file management, I'm sorry to anybody who worked with me and had to help me with that. Um, I wasn't great. And I think one of my biggest success stories is I was written up at Mark Taylor, my fourth year in. And here I am almost 20 years into this, right? So um I like to tell that story because I understand. I understand what it's like to like feel like a failure. And you kind of feel like, oh my gosh, I've got to get out of here. This is embarrassing. Um, but it's it's not. I actually, if anybody watches this, they probably had no idea that ever happened to me before. Um, but I just did you just tell a big secret. Um but it it's so important to me. I no one, I think it's just helped me realize like nobody's perfect. And at some point it could absolutely click with somebody. And I know what was hard for me. And so um, when I see someone who maybe needs time management help or organization help, it's so it's easy for me to give them my tools, right? But also have empathy for that and say, hey, like been there, done. And maybe don't tell every employee that I've been written that. But you might have just but it also, you know, that's it's a great leader. When I'm teaching a leadership class, I love to share that story because I think they also write off people when when they when some when they have that important per performance plan with someone, they're like, okay, this is just like the next step to them going. And it yeah, absolutely isn't. Yeah, it absolutely isn't. It's the way that you phrase it. I have had plenty of team members that I've had to have a very tough conversation with who I think I would still hire today, a couple in particular that I would hunt them down and hire them if they move to Arizona. Yeah. Um, and so I think that's really important for people to know.

Aligning Personal Growth With Brand Goals

SPEAKER_00 25:09

Yeah, that's really interesting. I've seen lately a lot of like reels and TikToks about per performance improvement plans and how, yeah, it's just the next step to getting fired or whatever. But to hear you put it differently. And and it can be if you're putting someone on that plan, but then not giving them a path to improve, like the training in the classes and watch this and do this, and you know, then yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:30

I actually uh when I teach our review class right before review season, which we're actually in the middle of right now, um, one thing that I tell them to do is within the review, one, reflect on what if you have you partnered with me yet to talk about classes they should have been already get beginning. Right. Um but if you haven't, then let's list some classes for them to take, give them a due date and follow up on those classes as part of that.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:53

Because, you know, it's the next chance to get to the next, you know, to get better at this and improve that skill.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So what do you think? Um, you know, we're talking about everything to do right, right? Like that's working and it's uh going great. What do you think leaders get wrong about promotion decisions?

Women, Confidence, And Skill Building

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Um again, it's that thinking about just the skill involved for sure. I think just thinking about or or I'm sorry, the tasks involved for sure. Just planning. I remember when I first got into training and people would send me training requests. Hey, I have someone who's ready for the next step. I would like them to get this, this, and this training. And it was all tasks. It was all how to do the reporting, it was all how to do this. And I remember being like, can we sneak in some leadership classes? And they'd be like, Yeah, yeah, when they get to it, right? It was always, and I'm like, no, we need those human skills. Yeah, it was very surprising to me. And I that's 100% it, right? They forget the and it's understandable as a leader. Let's say, like a manage, uh manager, it's we're talking about the regional manager who's so busy and they don't have time to micromanage. It is easy for them to say, I'm ready for all these tasks to get off my plate, but then they're they're gonna have a tough time with the team member piece of it. So um, I have a robust eight-hour critical conversations class. And I'm I'm always like, like, can we as soon as someone's promoted, let's get them in this class. Um, because it is the most important piece. It really is. Right. They'll get they'll get everything else, they'll understand how to do the reporting and the invoicing, but the leadership piece they have to get down sooner than later.

SPEAKER_00 27:35

Yeah, for sure. Um, are there certain signals or clues with your team members that you see that you're like, yes, this person is ready to move up to take the next step? Like for anyone listening who might be feeling like, I'm I'm ready to go, I want to do more, I want to get a promotion, I want to get more money, you know, all whatever it is, their motivating thing, what are the signals you see that tell you, like, yes, this person? Um or maybe there aren't any. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

No, there absolutely are. I think there absolutely are. I like um, I mean, obviously, independence is big for me. Um follow-up or adding to something. If I give a task and I have a team member that's like, okay, I did this task and I also had a really great idea to enhance that task or to do I'm like, okay, okay, yeah. Because then they're not just thinking about that, they're thinking outside. Um, I love when they're contributing ideas, it's really important to me. Um, so it isn't always just about um, are they doing everything perfectly? It's probably thinking above and beyond what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

I think you're spot on with that. I love it when when like what you said, they're they're thinking beyond. Because it's okay, I love a task rabbit. Like, I mean, I need this, get it done. I know. Amazing. Thank you so much, whatever that task was. But yeah, but when they go above and beyond, and you can tell they're thinking about it more than just this one thing. They're like, okay, well, this is how it plays into the bigger picture. This might be helpful to Jackie. So let me let me just see what she thinks about this. Like, then you're like, oh my gosh, they really care.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

I know, and yeah, and they're starting to think at the next level, right? That's another thing about promotions that make them so scary. And that's actually even just recently for me, is you master this task to the or master master this position to the point where you are going above and beyond and you're doing your own thing, and then you get into it and you're maybe able to do everything at surface level. And for high achievers, that's gut-wrenching. It's the worst so hard. It's so hard, you're like, hold on, how did I go from being good at this and now I'm just like this mediocre, like kind of barely getting by? Yeah. Um, and that happens to a lot of people too. So that's why you know you you're seeing that, but then reminding them, hey, yeah, you're not gonna be like that at the next role. It's okay. And for the first 90 days, you're floundering a little bit, like that's what I'm here for. So you kind of almost set them up, not set them up for failure, but set them up to know that it's not going, you're not gonna the expectation is not to just hit the ground running and be the exact same person you were before. That's what causes burnout and that leaving for after a promotion.

Future Skills: Communication And EI

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Right. Well, like you said earlier, it's a totally different role. I mean, I had the same experience before I was even in multifamiliars in the legal field, and I was so good, like so good. I'm task-oriented, I got all my stuff done. They're like, Great, you're now promoted and you're managing all these people. Well, I had never managed a single other than myself. I had only ever managed myself in the real world. Yeah. And, you know, with no clarity around what that meant or training or support afterwards, it was like, yeah, the burnout hit real quick. And I was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

That's really interesting you say that because when I entered this new role, it did become a lot of overseeing and rolling out new projects. I just rolled out um a brand new, something called on-screen guidance, and that took a lot of like kind of back in work. And I I was so used to creating, and that's you know what my biggest skill was. And I loved, you know, the I still was a leader at the time, but um, and I think my my very smart leader was like, hey, I think you're experiencing burnout because you're not doing the thing that you loved so much, right? Right away. And so then I had to take responsibility to get creative on how I still stay creative, right? So it's helping my team members with their webinars on a surface. Like 10 minutes a day, I'm like, okay, let's go over your webinar and see if I can contribute, right? And then I go back to my task management that I'm not as excited. And that did help me. I've really been incorporating that more. And it's like I get these little pieces of what I loved, but that I still get to elevate myself and still get to show the show myself in the world that I can still be doing something else and becoming, you know, elevated in my role.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that um by having that pathway, it kind of you're you're cutting out some of the frustrations that might come because when you if you promote someone and it doesn't work out and they leave, or you know, that it also affects everybody else in the office or everyone who's working with them, you know, the turnover, everybody knows. Obviously, turnover is hard and very hard. Yeah. Yeah. So that's interesting. How do you align? You just mentioned, like, you know, you got promoted and you're like, okay, I have to kind of shift my thinking here and figure out how to make this work for me. How did you do that? How do you align your your individual goals, but stay aligned also with the company goals?

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Um, that's a really good question. So our department, like I mentioned with the vision in particular, it's very easy for us, but the mission is, you know, to create exceptional communities that fight, inspire, and feel like home. And so um it's getting creative, figuring out how to motivate people. So my favorite thing to do is motivate, figure out how to get them motivated, think get in their brain. So instead of saying, instead of um, you know, I'm in charge of a department that spreads the message on how we keep up the brand integrity of Mark Taylor. And where I get to use my skills that I love to continue to do is say, okay, how do I motivate that too? Like, here's a sales class, here's the creative way to deliver it and create the why and do all of that. So that grows me individually, but while also staying focused on Mark Taylor's ultimate goal.

AI-Assisted Writing And EQ Guardrails

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah. Um, so for women in multifamily specifically, uh we mentioned you spoke at the summit last year. Thanks again for doing that. Wonderful. I'm glad you had a good time. Um, for women in multifamily who want to grow into leadership, they might not be there yet, but how should they think about skill building differently than just working harder? Like I think women, we you know, especially like you mentioned, I don't maybe you didn't say type A. It may be in my head at the type A. But those of us who are like, we got to get it right the first time, you know, how do we actually build the skills rather than just working harder and getting to the burnout point?

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Yeah, I think that it's so significant because and it go, and I apologize, I keep going back to that task orientation part of it, but um we do get we do get so worried about getting things right the first time and we just need to lean into our strengths, right? That's when I talked about the idea of I wasn't a great assistant manager because I'm not a type A person.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

If you haven't figured it out and okay, so then that was my brain thing, type A. Okay, you got it.

SPEAKER_01 33:59

Uh but um how do I lean into those strengths to be to move up or to elevate my role, right? Um, and I think with skills pathways, it's not anybody saying, you know, you're too empathetic, you can't be a leader. Right. You're saying, actually, this is a strength of mine, and here's how it applies to every all of these tasks. Uh-huh. Because I could probably add in empathy um into several tasks that we do in almost every single skills pathway, right? Um, or what, you know, or I am I'm type A, I need things to go this way, this way, if that's your personality type, um, which could be anybody, but I think with women in particular, because we're so hard on ourselves, we're we have insane imposter syndrome, we get to put almost like the tactical application to what it is. So, hey, I'm type A, and that works for this test, this task, this test, this task, right? And you get to like actually allow yourself to be confident and in that promotion instead of feeling like you have to get everything right or you're not doing it right.

SPEAKER_00 35:00

Yeah. And as you mentioned, as a leader, telling telling your team members, like, listen, you don't have to do this right away. Like, no, give it 90 days, give it, you know, whatever it takes in order. Because yeah, I think we are hard on ourselves. Yeah. And we feel like we have to be perfect and you know, at work, and then we gotta go home and get the kids and do all the things. Yeah, and it never feels like you can do anything a hundred percent. Yeah, that's how it feels sometimes.

unknown 35:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

What um aside from like task-oriented skills, what what human skill do you think people need for the future to be successful?

Adaptation, Change Management, And SMART

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Um, communication I think is one of the most underrated uh skills. Um, in a way, negotiating or persuasive communication. Uh persuasive communication in multifamily can land on almost any uh skill pathway for me. Obviously, leasing, even I mean, even maintenance. You're going in and you're talking to people in their homes, right? You need to have good communication, but marketing, my job obviously, um, up to the CEO, right? You have to have great communication, and whether that's written or verbal, and just the ability to have um the strength to talk to people about hard conversations. So that might be my number one. I'm such an empathy person. I think, or just being able to like see people and meet people where they are in the world, right? Wouldn't that be awesome if we were just better at that? But I think in the workforce, like if you could just understand if that someone is gonna be type A and you're gonna be type B and we're gonna find a way to work together. My uh my leader is in type A and I'm type B, and we have found the most amazing way to work with each other. I'm like, I have this idea, and it starts on the top of a roof, you know? And she's like, okay, let's figure out how to like actually put this together, and um, and then it like it works, you know? It's it's always wild and crazy. I it's that convergent and divergent thinking that's like merges so perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

When you can get it right, it's like excellent.

SPEAKER_01 36:56

If people could continue to work that way instead of just saying, like, that person doesn't do things the way that I do them, because that causes the most conflict.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

And it's also hard on you too, when you've when you are stressed, and when you feel like that all the time, like, oh, they can't do it the way I do it, so it's wrong. Right. Yeah, it's about finding the the beauty in it, right? The silver lining of how we can work together. Exactly. Yeah, that's really interesting. Um just this morning on the Innovation Council, we were talking about how even residents now are using like something like Chat GPT to write emails to leasing agents. And so when you mentioned communication and knowing how to have you know those more difficult conversations, but do it, you know, diplomatically and how you're going to get your point across or whatever, because everybody's using all these new tools that's maybe improving the writing, or I'm not sure, but I do love it.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

So I, you know, when I'm feeling the heat of the moment, maybe upset about something, I'll write everything I want to write. It's kind of like journaling. Uh-huh. And then I plug it into Chat GPT and I say, make this concise and warm. Or make this concise and helpful, right? So that's and it does. And I read it and I'm like, that's, you know, and now it the great thing about that is I've seen it so many times. Now that's just how I write. Right. Right? It's helpful. Um, but uh so I do encourage my team members, are the our managers of community operations to do that. If you're writing a resonant email, yeah. It used to be sit on it, come back to it. Now it's plug in Chat GPT and say, hey, I'm a manager, I need this to sound helpful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

And it yeah, and then it's uh it's all about the emotional intelligence as well, right? Because we can easily shoot off an email in three seconds and be like, oh no. Well, the great thing about my ChatGPT now, I pay premium.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

Yeah, it knows me very well, is uh it's actually told me this doesn't seem like your personality. Like it'll say, yeah, it'll say, like, usually you're warmer than this. Um, and I had I upload um emotional intelligence tools in there, um, videos, and so and I'll I make it known to Chat GPT that this is how I want to present myself, this is how I want to be, this is how I want to think, and so that way it's not pulling from anywhere trying to decide, it's actually focusing on like the way that I want to show up. Yeah, yeah. I love I could I love ChatGPT.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Don't worry, who doesn't? Um, that's great. So sorry. I'm wondering, is there any advice that you would give to your younger self or to leaders who are just emerging in multifamily to kind of smooth the transition in?

SPEAKER_01 39:32

Gosh, uh multifamily has changed.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah, that's true. It might not be a change. So maybe that's it.

Extreme Ownership And Lifelong Learning

SPEAKER_01 39:38

Adapt, yeah. Adapt, right? That actually would probably be it. Um, is it has changed so much, and we do say, Oh, it used to be like this, it used to be like this, I don't want it to be like this anymore. And um, at Mark Taylor, we use a smart model and it's simplify, make space, adapt, um, refine, and thrive. And that adapt piece, admittedly, even some of our leaders will say, that's my hardest part, is because we when we change something, which we we have to. Right. Um, and Mark Taylor's great at it, we're so innovative, um, it's hard. And so that would be it is if something comes up and you don't understand it or you don't agree with it yet, try to look on all the sides. Yeah. Um, communicate with your team. I hear you, I see you, but there's probably something we're missing. Let me look into it for you instead of feeding into that. Right. Um, and go to your leader and and ask for more why. Um, and maybe you'll understand because there's plenty of things that I, you know, almost picketed out in front of our corporate office. I don't want this. And then six months later, I'm like, oh, actually, this is really oh that was great.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah, I could tell guys. I'm really glad we see that now. So adapt. Yeah, that's funny. Um, yeah, I mean, change management is so difficult. It's something we it's a topic at every summit we do because it's just it's always evolving and and finding a way to, like you said, communicate these changes with your team members and make it less scary and make it more palatable. Yeah. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

I mean, if we didn't, we'd be putting uh guest cards in a Rollodex and typing up leases still, which is what we were doing when I first started.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Yeah, I can't imagine. I know. Yeah, I love that the Rollodex. Um, is there one skill, if you could give everyone one skill to focus on in the next looking ahead for the next 12 months? Like if we were to come back here next year, what skill would you have wanted everyone to work on?

SPEAKER_02 41:28

That's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

I I don't know if I can think I think I I mean I mean the communication one is so big to me. Um a specific skill. I would say learning how to teach yourself. Um I love that. Yeah, that was an important, another important lesson for me is um I sat back a lot in my early 20s and said, like, who's gonna finally teach me this? Like I don't know how to do this, and no one's ever giving me the tools. And um uh we our principles, we've got two. One is um uh uh be better than you were yesterday and take extreme ownership. Those are two separate ones. And I always say my favorite principle is the merge of those is taking extreme ownership of being better than you were yesterday because that was me suddenly in my late 20s. I was like, nope, I'm just gonna go back to school. Nope, I'm just gonna take that online class. Nope, I'm just gonna do that. And that's when I finally grew. And it's funny because that's my entire job is to supply the training, but at the same time, it that's so important to take extreme ownership of that.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yeah, I love that. And once you realize, like, wait a second, I am a grown-up. Yeah, I mean, I I am responsible for my own decisions, my own life, and I can take classes, I can go back to school or I can do this online learning.

SPEAKER_01 42:45

I can learn whatever and I became such a big learner. I mean, I was taking side history classes because I loved learning just everything. Um, and I'm so I'm really glad that somewhere that clicked and I all of a sudden found that I loved learning so much.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

So that would be my advice.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

I love that. I'm a lifelong learner too. Randomly, I'm I have like a baking and pastry certificate because I just felt like I wanted this in my life. You know, so I went back to college to learn how to decorate cakes that has nothing to do with multifamily.

Connect With Jackie And Closing CTA

SPEAKER_01 43:14

I have a group of friends that has a nickname for me, Jackie. Did you know? Because I'll always go, Did you know? And it's like some random fact. So next trivia night, you're coming with us. Yes, I am. I'm great at trivia. Uh my family goes to a place called Brass Tap where I'm winning trivia quite often.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Which is awesome. I love that. So um, if our listeners want to connect with you, they want to learn more about this or just be your friend, what's the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_01 43:40

LinkedIn, absolutely. I do not know my LinkedIn handle. That's okay. We'll post it. It's actually Jack Will and Mousto. Yes. I don't know why. Jackie is what I go by, but yes, LinkedIn is such a great place to connect. Okay, and we'll post that in the show notes. Awesome. Everyone can find you.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

Thank you so much for being here and coming in person to the studio.

SPEAKER_01 43:56

It was great. This chair is very comfortable. It's easy.

SPEAKER_00 43:59

Well, you look very natural. I think your radio host, Jock, is in the future. I mean, we've got a place here. Monday. Yeah, I love it. Awesome. Thanks again for being here. Yeah, thank you so much. All right, so that is the end of our episode with Jackie Mousto. Thank you again, Jackie, for being here. Um, if you know someone who can benefit from everything that we talked about. today in this conversation. Please share this episode. Let them know that it's here. Give them the link to it. We'll give you all the ways to get a hold of Jackie in the show notes. And don't forget to get registered for the Multifamily Women Summit. You can do that at multifamilywomen.com and we'll see you there.